In the Kyle Butt/Dan Barker debate, Dan Barker alleged that He “knows” the God of the Bible cannot exist because “there are mutually incompatible properties/characteristics of the God that’s in this book [the Bible—EL] that rule out the possibility of His existence” (2009). One of the supposed contradictions that Barker mentioned was that God claims invisibility, yet has been seen. (His assertion is found 10 minutes and 55 seconds into his first speech.) Since biblical passages such as Exodus 33:20-23, John 1:18, and 1 John 4:12 teach that God cannot be seen, while other scriptures indicate that man has seen God and spoken to him “face to face” (Exodus 33:11; Genesis 32:30), allegedly “the God of the Bible does not exist.”

Although in modern times words are regularly used in many different senses (e.g., hot and cold, good and bad), Barker, like so many Bible critics, has dismissed the possibility that the terms in the aforementioned passages were used in different senses. Throughout Scripture, however, words are often used in various ways. In James 2:5, the term “poor” refers to material wealth, whereas the term “rich” has to do with a person’s spiritual well-being. In Philippians 3:12,15, Paul used the term “perfect” (NASB) in different senses. Although Paul had attained spiritual maturity (“perfection”) in Christ (vs. 15), he had not yet attained the perfect “final thing, the victor’s prize of the heavenly calling in Christ Jesus” (Schippers, 1971, 2:62; cf. Philippians 3:9-11). Similarly, in one sense man has seen God, but in another sense he has not.

Consider the first chapter of John where we learn that in the beginning Jesus was with God and “was God” (1:1; cf. 14,17). Though John wrote that Jesus “became flesh and dwelt among us” (1:14), he indicated only four sentences later that “no one has seen God at any time” (1:18; 1 John 4:12). Was Jesus God? Yes. Did man see Jesus? Yes. So in what sense has man not seen God? No human has ever seen Jesus in His true image (i.e., as a spirit Being—John 4:24—in all of His fullness, glory, and splendor). When God, the Word, appeared on Earth 2,000 years ago, He came in a veiled form. In his letter to the church at Philippi, the apostle Paul mentioned that Christ—Who had existed in heaven “in the form of God”—“made Himself of no reputation,” and took on the “likeness of men” (Philippians 2:6-7). Mankind saw an embodiment of deity as Jesus dwelt on Earth in the form of a man. Men saw “the Word” that “became flesh.” Likewise, when Jacob “struggled with God” (Genesis 32:28), He saw only a form of God, not the spiritual, invisible, omnipresent God Who fills heaven and Earth (Jeremiah 23:23-24).

But what about those statements which indicate that man saw or spoke to God “face to face”? Jacob said, “I have seen God face to face” (Genesis 32:30). Gideon proclaimed: “I have seen the Angel of the Lord face to face” (Judges 6:22). Exodus 33:11 affirms that “the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.” First, although these men witnessed great and awesome things, they still only saw manifestations of God and a part of His glory (cf. Exodus 33:18-23). Second, the words “face” and “face to face” are used in different senses in Scripture. Though Exodus 33:11 reveals that God spoke to Moses “face to face,” only nine verses later God told Moses, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live” (33:20). Are we to believe (as Barker and other critics assert) that the author of Exodus was so misguided that he wrote contradictory statements within only nine verses of each other? Certainly not! What then does the Bible mean when it says that God “knew” (Deuteronomy 34:10) or “spoke to Moses face to face” (Exodus 33:11)? The answer is found in Numbers 12. Aaron and Miriam had spoken against Moses and arrogantly asked: “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” (Numbers 12:2). God then appeared to Aaron and Miriam, saying: “If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. I speak with him face to face, even plainly, and not in dark sayings; and he sees the form of the Lord” (Numbers 12:6-8, emp. added). Notice the contrast: God spoke to the prophets of Israel through visions and dreams, but to Moses He spoke, “not in dark sayings,” but “plainly.” In other words, God, Who never showed His face to Moses (Exodus 33:20), nevertheless allowed Moses to see “some unmistakable evidence of His glorious presence” (Jamieson, 1997), and spoke to him “face to face, as a man speaks to his friend” (33:11), i.e., He spoke to Moses plainly, directly, etc.

The Bible does not reveal “mutually incompatible characteristics of God” as Barker has alleged. His assertions in no way prove that the God of the Bible does not exist or that the Bible is unreliable. In truth, Barker’s comments merely reveal that he is a dishonest interpreter of Scripture. If Barker can work “side by side” with a colleague without literally working inches from him (Barker, 2008, p. 335), or if he can see “eye to eye” with a fellow atheist without ever literally looking into the atheist’s eyes, then Barker can understand that God could speak “face to face” with Moses without literally revealing to him His full, glorious “face.”

Problem: God declared to Moses, “No man shall see Me, and live” (Ex. 33:20,

Expanded from John 1:18:
John 1:18—Why does John say no one has seen God when other verses declare we will see God?

Problem: On the one hand the Bible claims no one can see God, but on the other hand it says “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God” (Matt. 5:8) and His servants “shall see His face” (Rev. 22:4) and “we shall see Him as He is” (1 John 3:2).

Solution: The verses which teach that no man can see God are referring to no mortal man in this life. Even Moses was refused this honor (Ex. 33:23). Mortal man is not suited for that exposure. However, what mortal man cannot see in this life, immortal man will see in the next life (1 Cor. 13:12; Rev. 22:4). This is known as the beatific (blessed) vision and will be the spiritual climax of the believer to see God face-to-face, to know Him directly in His essence and not merely indirectly as reflected through created things (Rom. 1:18–20).

. Moses was allowed only to see God’s “back” (Ex. 33:23). Yet the Bible informs us that Moses spoke with God “face to face” (Deut. 5:4). How could he speak to God face to face without seeing His face?

Solution: It is possible for a blind person to speak face to face with someone without seeing their face. The phrase “face to face” means personally, directly, or intimately. Moses had this kind of unmediated relationship with God. But he, like all other mortals, never saw the “face” (essence) of God directly.

My pastor asked “who has seen
God
(face to face)?” I replied that in Genesis several occurrences take place where several individuals talked, walked, and conversed with
God
as they would with you and/or me. Examples are Sarah (Sarai), Abraham, Jacob (later renamed Israel) just to name a few that come to mind right now. Needless to say the pastor call me out and quoted a Scripture that says that
God
has not let anyone see him directly to the face because they would surely die.
—Eddy
As you mentioned, many people in the Old Testament are said to have seen
God
, such as Abraham (Genesis 18:1–33), Jacob (Genesis 32:30), and Gideon (Judges 6:22–23). So why did the Lord tell Moses that “no man shall see Me, and live” (Exodus 33:20)? And how could John claim, “No one has seen
God
at any time” (John 1:18)?
The solution to this apparent contradiction seems to be that Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, and others witnessed what theologians refer to as a theophany, from the Greek terms for “
God
” and “appear.” That is,
God
appeared to them in human form. Several passages mention the angel of the Lord appearing to people, and this “angel” is even referred to as
God
in some passages. Christians generally believe that this angel of the Lord is none other than the preincarnate Lord
Jesus
Christ (i.e.,
Jesus
before his incarnation).
Let’s consider several of these appearances of
God
to get a clearer picture of this concept.
Abraham (and possibly Sarah)
Genesis 18:1–2 says that the Lord appeared to Abraham in the form of a man (and two angels also appeared as men). Then the Lord told Abraham that he and Sarah would have a child in about a year’s time. Sarah laughed and denied it, but the Lord declared that she did laugh. However, whether she saw him or not (Sarah being inside a tent) is not clear from the text. Then minutes later, in Genesis 18:22–33, Abraham pleaded with God not to destroy Sodom if there could be found (at the last) ten righteous people in the city. In verse 33, we read, “And the
Lord
went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.” Clearly, Abraham saw
God
in human form at this time.
Jacob
In Genesis 32:24–30, Jacob wrestled with a man all night until daybreak. When Jacob said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!” the man said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with
God
and with men, and have prevailed” (32:28). Then Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen
God
face to face, and yet my life has been delivered” (32:30). Jacob saw and wrestled with
God
in human form.
Job (and His Three Friends)
The text indicates that Job (and likely his “friends”) had not only spoken with but apparently had seen God.
In Job 38:1, we read that “the
Lord
answered Job out of the whirlwind,” and over the next few chapters,
God
asked Job a series of questions. Then in Job 42:5–6, Job (in the presence of his friends) contritely answered the Lord, saying, “I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Then in 42:7, the Lord spoke to Eliphaz the Temanite and said that he was angry with Eliphaz and his two friends (Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite) and told them to offer a sacrifice for their incorrect words about
God
. The text indicates that Job (and likely his “friends”) had not only spoken with but apparently had seen
God
. The text does not tell us whether Job saw
God
in human form. He may have only seen
God
in the form of a whirlwind, which would still technically be a theophany, since it is an appearance of
God
, similar to his appearance as a pillar of cloud and fire in Exodus 13:21–22.
Gideon
In Judges 6:12–16, the Angel of the
Lord
appeared to Gideon and said that he was going to defeat the Midianites, who were oppressing Israel at the time. Then the Angel of the
Lord
told him, “But I will be with you, and you shall strike the Midianites as one man” (Judges 6:16). After the Angel of the
Lord
showed him a sign and then instantly disappeared, Judges 6:22 explains that Gideon perceived that he saw the angel of the
Lord
. And Gideon said, “Alas, O Lord
God
! For now I have seen the angel of the
Lord
face to face.” But the
Lord
said to him, “Peace be to you. Do not fear; you shall not die” (Judges 6:23). The Angel of the
Lord
is here identified as God. Thus, Gideon saw God as the Angel of the
Lord
.
Manoah and His Wife (Samson’s Parents)
In Judges 13:15–23, Manoah and his wife were visited by the Angel of the
Lord
, who told them how to raise their soon-to-be-born son Samson. Of particular note in this passage is when Manoah asked the Angel of the
Lord
what his name was. The Angel replied, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” (Judges 13:18).
1
After the Angel of the
Lord
disappeared from them by ascending in the fire from an offering, Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!” (13:22). But his wife, realizing that she and her husband had to live to conceive and give birth to the promised son, said to Manoah, “If the
Lord
had meant to kill us, he would not have accepted a burnt offering and a grain offering at our hands, or shown us all these things, or now announced to us such things as these” (Judges 13:23). The Angel of the
Lord
revealed himself to Samson’s parents in the form of a man (v. 6).
Moses
Numerous passages seem to clearly indicate
God
appearing to Moses, who seemed to have unique opportunities for such interactions:
In Exodus 3:2–6, we read that the Angel of the
Lord
spoke to Moses from the burning bush and then announced himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Moses then hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
In Exodus 33:11, the
Lord
spoke to Moses face-to-face, as a man speaks to his friend.
In Numbers 12:8, while rebuking Aaron and Miriam, God says, “With him I speak mouth to mouth, clearly, and not in riddles, and he beholds the form of the
Lord
. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”
In Numbers 14:14, Moses pleaded with the Lord to show mercy to the Israelites after they had sinned again: “[A]nd they will tell the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that you, O
Lord
, are in the midst of this people. For you, O
Lord
, are seen face to face, and your cloud stands over them and you go before them, in a pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night.”
In Deuteronomy 5:4, Moses again states that the entire nation of Israel saw God at Mt. Sinai: “The
Lord
talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire.”
In Deuteronomy 34:10, likely written by Joshua right after the death of Moses, we read, “And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the
Lord
knew face to face.”
However, Moses was not permitted to see God the Father’s full glory or his face—only his back.
And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The
Lord
.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” (Exodus 33:19–20)
Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen. (Exodus 33:23)
The second possible solution is that the phrase translated as “face to face” is simply a “Hebrew way of saying that there was a personal communication between God and a human being.”
Some have tried to insinuate that there is a contradiction between these statements about Moses. Did he talk to God face-to-face, or was he not allowed to see God’s face? But there are two plausible, biblically consistent responses to this supposed contradiction. First, Moses may have spoken with God face-to-face and seen him because God may have appeared as the Angel of the Lord. When God appears this way, he does not display his full glory because no one would survive the encounter. This is why he only permitted Moses to see a glimpse of his glory. The second possible solution is that the phrase translated as “face to face” is simply a “Hebrew way of saying that there was a personal communication between God and a human being.”
2
That is, the writer was employing an idiom to describe close communication.
Elijah
After fleeing from Jezebel, Elijah became weary, and the Angel of the
Lord
twice touched Elijah to wake him and told him to eat some food (1 Kings 19:5–8). Once again, we see a physical manifestation of
God
able to touch Elijah.
John’s Testimony About Seeing God
The Apostle John wrote that it was
Jesus
who declared the Father to men, and
Jesus
himself said this twice and stated that whoever had seen him had seen the Father.
No one has seen
God
at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (John 1:18 NKJV)
It is written in the Prophets, “And they will all be taught by
God
.” Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me —not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from
God
; he has seen the Father (John 6:45–46)
Jesus
said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:9)
Conclusion
If the
Old Testament theophanies
were truly appearances of the Second Person of the Trinity in human form, then those people who saw him were like the disciples in that they saw God as he was revealed in his Son. But they did not, in fact, see
all
of the Father’s glory. That glory was veiled (either in the form of an angel or in human flesh). Both the pastor and the questioner are correct. No man has seen
God
in his full glory, but there are many OT saints and NT followers of Christ (quite a bit more than have been mentioned in this brief overview) who have seen
God
physically manifested in a form that veiled his full glory.